Posts by Winston Grace

    I'm going to assume, that should someone purchase a standard Perch license (via the roundabout method) you'll get a license and it will be usable.

    In fact, if I had faith in the programming/design ability of the new owners I'd test one out, see if it would work with v4 of Runway (as they say current Perch licenses do), and buy a bunch before they shut that option down…

    But I don't. And to be honest, If I did, I probably wouldn't do that because I'd feel bad taking advantage of the loophole.

    Yes, so as a new customer, you have to:

    1. Start your purchase by being redirected to the Perch Runway page
    2. Ignore the fact the website is saying you are now buying Runway license for $249 + VAT instead of $69 + VAT.
    3. Create your account details
    4. Remove the Runway license from your cart
    5. Ignore the warning ! Perch versions are now no longer available for new licenses and Plread documentation to upgrade from Perch to Perch Runway
    6. Add a standard Perch licence to your cart

    How so, when we can still purchase Perch licenses?

    The product is future-proof in terms of the CMS itself, so while for Cart, it seems that it is more a Runway product, I don't see how Perch could be considered discontinued, in particular when Runway and Perch are built on the same codebase.

    I've no argument that Perch is solid and can continue to be used for a long time. Just have to ignore deprecation errors in PHP 8 once PHP 7.4 stops security support in November.

    I think you've misunderstood my message about the ‘Cart’. I'm just referring to how to buy a license in our Perch accounts. Anyway, even if you can, the owners explicitly state on the account page:


    ! Perch versions are now no longer available for new licenses.

    You can upgrade V4 of Perch Runway ,your licence will work with the brand new version as well.

    Please read documentation to upgrade from Perch to Perch Runway.

    Not only that, go to right now and try to purchase a license as a new user… you can't. It redirects to

    This is what I get now in my account:

    I can purchase any one of these licenses but Perch, is only for version 3.2

    Looks like just another oversight on their part. They state ! Perch versions are now no longer available for new licenses on the Licenses page…

    Repeat the warning on the Perch Licenses page with no Buy a License button…

    But the Runway License pages do have the Buy a License button…

    The only way to buy a standard Perch license is via the Cart page. Whether that actually works or not is anyone's guess. It's quite clear that Perch is being discontinued in favour of Runway. At some point in the future I guess there will be an announcement for this.

    No one lost their job, only a client so let's not overstate the situation.

    How about we be glad, at least that Perch' reputation is now in the hands of a positive venture capital group.

    As Clive said, that’s loss of income, and I'll add reputation. But nevertheless, I'm not going the argue new owners of Perch owe us much of anything. Businesses stop and services close down all the time.

    But that goes in reverse too, and it’s obvious all of this will and has lost them business from many of us.

    And it seems like they just don’t care.


    Can I ask, why does this matter to end users?

    It may matter to Google but I don't see how any of this affects end users in any way at all whatsoever.

    Mate, while I have been slightly wary at the criticism leveled at the new owners (in the past, not so much anymore), the SSL thing is seemingly minor but is really beyond a joke.

    In the Slack channel someone actually lost a potential client over it, because they decided to look at

    I still like Perch, but no way would recommend it to a new client. Most are not interested in the technology as such, but a lot do have an idea of the big guns, like WordPress. And it usually goes like this…

    I sing Perch’s praises. The client (who has only ever used WordPress), goes ‘you know what, I don’t really like WordPress, I find it a pain in the arse. Let me check out the website of this Perch thing you like, but what your saying sounds good to me’.

    What do you think is going to happen when they check out the site, and it has a massive red exclamation point sign and ’Attackers might be trying to steal your information from (for example, passwords, messages or credit cards).’ On Firefox it can be even worse

    It’s also possible that an attacker is involved. If you decide to visit the website, you should not enter any sensitive information like passwords, emails, or credit card details.’

    If I am reading your question correctly, what you want to happen is the default settings.

    You shouldn't need to do anything custom for it behave as you want, if using:

    And you click into Board of Trustees, Meeting Notes, Finance Info, Resolutions the HTML markup generated for each page will be:

    • Fast Facts
    • Welcome Letter
    • Board of Trustees
      • Meeting Notes
      • Finance Info
      • Resolutions
    • Organization Charts
    • Calendar

    I don't think it is appropriate, and may be considered offensive; particularly considering that the post itself is about the Perch CMS.

    I think you have a point to say that discussing alternatives is perhaps is better on another post/thread.

    However to state that it is not appropriate to discuss alternatives to Perch simply because this is the ‘Perch’ forum is strange. It’s a public forum about Perch. Everyone on here are developers, who use Perch to develop websites.

    While I personally don't agree with perhaps the tone and aggressiveness of some comments, for many (myself included) Perch is not currently meeting their needs, and that is after a very long period of time waiting. Hence the discussion of alternatives.

    I've talked on WordPress forums about preferring Perch, I've seen intense discussions of pros and cons of alternative CMS’s on many other individual CMS forums. No one there thought it shouldn't be discussed.

    It could be worse… we could all just leave the forum and Perch and not come back. The fact we are discussing alternatives here, means Perch is still figuring in our calculations.

    A long time ago, I did a multi level where if there was a dropdown, a toggle `<button>` (JavaScript generated) was placed alongside the link, and this was used for the dropdowns instead of hover. It lent itself well enough to multiple levels.

    There is still the possibility of users not seeing the dropdown at all, so the pages had a visible ‘Table of Contents’ in a sidebar. Which kind of made the dropdowns a little redundant – always a good thing in my book! Couldn't convince the client to lose the dropdown though.

    Hmmm, I’ve been waiting for any sign of life in Perch as much as everybody. I've got a Shop installation that I'm ready to pull the plug on and 3 existing Perch sites that I need to decide whether I should move to something else or not, given they will be having major redesigns this year.

    I really like Perch and especially its templating system. So its hard to say this, but I've already started moving off it. And mostly to WordPress – the shock! the horror! (I've found you can strip it right back and lock it down pretty good, and maybe I'm just too old to switch to static site generators right away).

    I want to be updated. I want a timeline to Perch 4. I want a guarantee of a vibrant ecosystem of apps and support and I want sustainable payment model.

    However, despite all of this.… I am not owed any of these.

    I have not got the developers on retainer. I've paid for quite a few licenses, but that was while ago now, and the one-off costs have given me everything they were supposed to up to this point.

    Just a small note of caution. I've been a jack of all trades (and therefor master of none) in web design and development for a number of years and it did take me quite a bit longer to get my head around implementing Perch Shop than I anticipated.

    Having said that, on your first go around with it, keep your scope tight on what you need – it is very good, and eventually it will click together. Just be prepared to learn a little bit of PHP.

    I don't think there is a way of seeing all the master page that are currently in use across the site, except for clicking into each and every page to see.

    Am I wrong?

    It would be a great addition I think. I'm in the middle of refactoring a large Runway site and consolidating a lot of master pages. It would also help in safely deleting unused master page templates.

    Is there any way of having a Perch Shop customer specify the amount of money for a purchase? This is for a donation form.

    I saw a couple of threads showing it wasn't supported, but they were 3 years old, so thought I'd check again in case anyone has made any workarounds?