Posts by TheOldDesigner

Quote from ex-jedi

Sounds interesting JayW. I don't want to hijack this thread from the OP though so I'll start another one if that's okay.

thank you your thoughtfulness is appreciated.👍

Quote from JayW

Because of what you make with it. Perch gives you a database and a few other things, and away you go. It's software you can build stuff with.

You admitted to being "guilty of re-using licenses" in earlier post. Now you're angry about not being able to transfer those licenses.

You said you're sitting on "16 unused licenses". Why buy so many in advance? If you used them previously with clients, then consider that cost like a subscription, now expired.

Basic Perch is cheap... $69. I've seen one-trick wordpress plugins cost more per year. Like WooCommerce's "Table Rate Shipping" $99 per year. It gives a few extra shipping options, nothing more.

New Perch owners since January. It's not *that* long. It only seems a long time because Drew was unhappy for so long and wanting to move on.

Regarding "recommending Perch" to clients. Most non-technical clients won't care about the software name. You're selling them a dynamic server-rendered CMS solution using a LAMP platform. Personally I hide all Perch branding. I'd never recommend anything other than Runway if you're a developer. Perch basic is better for lightweight solo projects rather than building things for clients. But even then I'd use Runway.

Maybe you should direct your license buyers to the Perch website to pay the $69.

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thank you for the lesson on how to run my business. Actually yes I am annoyed and occasionally I reused licenses as was allowed at the time. Why I bought the licenses is irrelevant someone is looking to buy them in bulk so maybe you would like to question their intentions as well?

I am not selling clients a CMS I am entering into a long term business relationship and meeting a need which includes hosting and maintenance contracts so I am concerned about the long term implications not dismissing clients who I hopefully will be dealing with for years to come as ignorant or uninterested.

As this post was opened to address admin problems and my situation with the owners perhaps we should just let admin respond as really your input is pretty irrelevant and a lecture I do not need.

Quote from JayW

Isn't the process to contact directors@perchrunway.com with queries to do with licenses? Did you try that email?

Runway is still good. If you have any licenses I'd hang on to them! Or if you have normal Perch licenses, maybe they'll give you a good deal on updating to Runway.

Runway is still a good option for business sites including e-commerce and other things. It allows you to focus on Javascript web apps if you like that, or HTML and CSS mainly... it doesn't bully you into any way of working unlike other systems.

I use Github to manage Runway website code, via the Github Desktop client...works well. I hate command lines! I will never ever use a command line. Ever!

Snipcart works really well with collection items I've discovered. I won't be using Perch Shop again even if they update it. With Snipcart it's possible to have event-like products where the price is influenced by both collection item data and dynamic user input on the product page, including things like calendar input in relation to server time, and anything you like. Because Runway makes it easy to manipulate the output before it's rendered, then Snipcart allows dynamic incremental pricing changes via javascript. The combo of these two factors opens many possible product types that Perch Shop couldn't cater for. I'll share my code later in show-tell section.

The modern web is using this "set of tools" approach more. Runway is still a solid option at the center of that approach, bringing it all together with its somewhat awkward and irritating interface! I still hope for V4 one day, but I think it may need a developer who wants to do it...

I don't think there's a core developer right now who wants to work on it. Let's face it, it will need one dedicated senior dev who owns it and stays up late obsessively working on it because they want to make a good product. This is missing right now. If "dark mode" is all they can come up with, it is telling that we're missing a core developer. All we have are these community moderators playing musical chairs!

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How can a product which obviously is rudderless and with no communication be a good option?

There are a dozens of other CMS’s vying for business Perch while useful in its day is no better than myriad others which are well maintained and I could probably rely on going forward . There is no way I would give these people any money or even use Runway if they gave it to me free!

It’s an administrative issue nothing to do with the dev team just get someone to do their job it’s now been a week. Pathetic response from a pathetic outfit!

You are now costing my business cash by your negligence , and as such failing on your legal duty of care. Sort it out or I will investigate what recourse I have against you.

Does anybody realise the irony in the title of this thread?

Plus nobody can be bothered to deal with my simple request re licensing, just a joke the whole thing! 😠

No F@@@k all as I expected

Well, the UK bank holiday is over Cyprus (where your dev team are supposed to be based) finished annual holidays last weekend so what’s the excuse this time?

I do not seem to warrant even the usual “pass it up the chain” buck passing response which has been the norm here for months. Not even a false promise of delivering something soon.

How anybody can even contemplate trusting Perch under its current ownership is beyond me. Here’s a suggestion, deliver a usable product in terms of actual code and support or get out of the way and allow it to be open sourced. Nobody probably including yourselves want this grief.

And await and await…..

Gareth S or any other support person who can be bothered. Given the major idiocy, lack of good faith, and a lot of other fake promises occurring here I desperately want to get out so I need to transfer all my unused licenses to someone who still seems to have faith in you.

Please advise how long you will take to transfer licenses and what I need to do to make this happen ASAP.

I simply have had enough!

I await your reply..

Gareth S Thank you for the response but it does not, at least my satisfaction, address my concerns and at this very late stage I personally feel it is still too little to late.

It's probably best I remove myself from the forum and just move on, rather than press for answers I do not think I am going to get and potentially cause upset. Having been with Perch since V1 it seems a shame to part company but I can not continue dealing with a business on the basis I am being expected to at the moment.

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Could you also tell us a bit about yourself and the Perch team please?

i echo that, I have asked before but with zero response.

Call me an old cynic but you projecting the existence of quite a large team, which to me at least does not fit well with a pretty cheaply priced product. All these “community managers” , support people, development teams, etc need to be paid for and your coming across as some corporate entity. Perch could not even support a lone developer how do you intend to fund the infrastructure your projecting from Perch?

Of course you may have other things going on and good for you if you have, but from where I sit, pretty much given up on Perch, the noises coming out of Perch HQ do not seem viable or realistic or gel with the products profile and market position.

Really I think what we all need now is some concrete information, who are the Perch team, what’s the plan, both in development and future licensing costs. If you want people to give you their money and put their reputation on the line with your product you need to cut out the flummery and platitudes and give us some hard facts.

Thank you, George G but this is just more platitudes and vague statements.

I think we all need some serious clarification from whoever you are so I will repeat my points

1. Who are the new Perch "Team" what experience do you bring to Perch and what is the (at least) basic Roadmap re future updates/versions and plugins?

2. What is the current status of the development cycle both of the core code and the plugins many rely on to empower Perch? I fail to believe you can not even have a basic idea on timescales, if you don't I'm afraid that tells us quite a lot.

3. What are the plans for future support, Slack/Forum/Discord peer support only or the Perch team as well, or maybe even paid support?

These are all basic questions in my opinion that need answering concisely, honestly and straight away. Of course you may disagree, that as the owner(s) is your right, we have the right to vote with our feet and wallets.

It's funny that my last post sat in "moderation" for a good few days, posting a screenshot on Twitter got it approved within minutes so maybe that's where we need to call you out!

Thank you for the "update", however just a couple of comments.

1. It would be really nice to know who now owns Perch, the people involved the size of the support and development team mentioned, you ask us to have faith and patience yet we sit here day after day, week after week with nothing of any substance, even the latest post is just vague mentions of things possibly to come. Ultimately people deal with people and service is often the only thing a business has to pull it above its competitors.

2. What is the situation with the development cycle? Did Drew and Rachel leave it in such a mess that it's taken months to even issue a small update let alone a new version (which were led to believe Drew had already been working on for a while). Somehow knowing the previous team I doubt that was anything like the case, a more likely explanation is Perch is owned by a sole developer/very small team working on myriad other things. Nothing wrong in that just again transparency would be appreciated, as people here are also business owners and need to make decisions. We are not mushrooms, we do not prosper in the dark.

Every time one of us recommends Perch our reputation is on the line, we are personally accountable to our clients is it wrong to expect the same from you?

I am sitting on 16 unused and a good few active Perch (v3) licenses, that for a small developer is a substantial investment going to waste and an investment I can at this point not really in all good faith deplete by recommending Perch going forward to clients. I presume I am not alone in this situation and frankly I believe I may just have to write this money off and transition current sites into another CMS which I can have some faith in.

If it wasn't for the hard work and dedication for a small number of forum contributors here I don't think Perch would even be in the (admittedly perilous) state it is now. I think you owe it to at least these people to give them more than vague platitudes and pronouncements of things which may or may not come.

Really what does it take for one of your “support team” to dip into the forum once or twice a week with concrete help/support or even to just approve posts held for moderation?

If you had not already worked it out I am very dissatisfied, not to say disappointed as I have been with Perch since V1.

I am sorry to read this but hardly surprised. It has been obvious that whatever is being said the devs have moved on to other probably more lucrative areas of income. I have (had) used Perch for many years but made a decision a while ago that it was just not going to be a viable option going forward and was falling way behind other options available and support was almost totally reliant on a few community members who could just disappear at any time.

Honestly I would prefer Perch was either completely open sourced or just given up on, falling between the two stools inevitably leads to decay, and more importantly increasing issues for clients and developers alike who struggle to live with old code and feature sets.

It gives me no pleasure to finally kiss Perch goodbye but client interests must come first, despite historic attachments and good memories.

Late to the party I know usually just a lurker..

I have been using Perch since V1, lone developer/designer servicing small businesses in a niche market, in some ways probably the persona Perch was initially conceived for.

Over the years I have accumulated a fair few Perch licenses, and I am certainly guilty of reusing them, I never assign licenses to the client, they remain mine, their sites hosted on my server, the client has the rights to them as long as they remain a client or can choose to pay for it if they go elsewhere (which rarely happens).

Recently however I have moved away from using Perch, for a few reasons, some of which may be down to my personal idiosyncrasies, some maybe not, but anyway for any new licensing model possibly relevent.

1. Perceived lack of development. Already dealt with by plenty of others, it is a major concern, given that Perch now seems to be no more than a side project.

2. Updating. I regularly update Statamic, Craft and ExpressionEngine sites by a simple one click process in the control panel, with Perch I need to maintain a git repo and use a deployment service, otherwise maintaining many sites I will be in for hours of work, and even if paid for is costly for me in terms of time required. This in 2020 seems archaic.

3. Control panel look/feel again this may be personal but it feels dated, and honestly has done for a few years.

4. Perch shop: This seems beyond crazy and a major mistake that this is not a paid add on. My guess is the support it requires has been a large factor in creating the current situation, anybody requiring e-commerce really should be prepared to pay for it, and pay well.

OK this all sounds negative, I do like Perch and would love to continue using it for certain clients, but any new licensing model which inevitably will be more expensive (and I appreciate DEV's have to live) has to come with some benefits for the end user in terms of a vibrant development regime, full time or otherwise.